- Back From A Long Break Of Not Writing A Book To My Liking: Memoirs Of A Writer By Rafael Cansinos Assens
- DISCOVERING OUR NARRATIVE, A PROCESS WE CALL LIFE
- ON OUR MISTAKES, SOMETIMES WE FEEL HOPELESS, AND LONELY
- A FEW THINGS ABOUT MY DAILY ROUTINE, AND MAYBE TRAVELING SOON.
- REFLECTIONS FROM AN OLD MAN ABOUT HIS PAST
- RUMORS OF WARS AND SUFFERING
- MY LOVE OF BOOKS, AND MY READING SAGA, A STORY OF LOVE, WONDER, HEARTBREAK, AND BACK PAIN.
- ON MYSTICISM AND MEISTER ECKHART
- A BEUTIFUL DAY TRHOUGH MY WINDOW THE HOPE OF A NEW YEAR
- REFLECTIONS OF CHRISTMAS PAST, AND PRESENT.
- HISTORY OF DREAMING, AND CONNECTION WITH SPIRIT, THIRD PART
- DREAM INTERPRETATION AND IT’S PROBLEMS. SECOND PART.
THE POWER OF ILLUSION, THE NARADA STORY
Posted on August 14, 2019 by theburningheart
About theburningheartBlog: KoneKrusosKronos.wordpress.com
This entry was posted in Consciousness, Ego, Enlightenment, Hinduism, Illusions, Impermanence, Inspiration, Knowledge, Love, Maya, Metaphor, Mother Goddess, Myth, Saints, Time Perception, Uncategorized, Wisdom and tagged Flood, Forgetfulness, Illusion, Krishna, Maya, Narada, Story. Bookmark the permalink.
We can all learn something from Narada’s story, can’t we!
Thank you for your comment Otto. 🙂
Hi, may I please reblog this post?
Sure, Tara, we appreciate it. 🙂
maybe more would have gained insight
from simpler metaphor stories
from the enlightened ones? 🙂
That’s the power of Myth, the Metaphor, in a simple story we can understand a lot more than with many arguments. 🙂
Maybe trying Psychedelics will serve you better than wasting time trolling.
The meaning remains foggy for me. Is Sri Krishna saying that our entire life is just an illusion?
Well dear, its a metaphor for the impermanence of life, and as such, its value is to make you ponder, and draw your own conclusions.
What its certain, its we all will pass away, so life has a relative value, and regardless if its an illusion, or not it goes swiftly as many poets and wise men have declared and said:
Mathew 6: 19-21
19Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
“Come on sweetheart,
let’s adore one another,
before there is no more
of you and me!”
“This existence of ours is as transient as Autumn clouds.
To watch the birth and death of beings it is like looking
at the movements of a dance.
A lifetime is like the flash of a lightning in the sky,
rushing by like a torrent down a steep mountain.”
“Look to this day:
For it is life, the very life of life.
In its brief course
Lie all the verities and realities of your existence.
The bliss of growth,
The glory of action,
The splendor of achievement
Are but experiences of time.
For yesterday is but a dream
And tomorrow is only a vision;
And today well-lived, makes
Yesterday a dream of happiness
And every tomorrow a vision of hope.
Look well therefore to this day;
Such is the salutation to the ever-new dawn!”
“All external splendor will perish,
Likewise the body will decay.
Only the superior Dharma will endure.
The wise should discern clearly.
Aging, illness, and death are resented by all;
Their appearance is dreadful and repulsive.
The countenance of youth is fleeting,
Soon it will wither and fade;
Even living to a hundred years, still
One must give in to the force of impermanence.
The suffering of aging, illness, and death
Constantly afflicts all sentient beings.”
Sutra on Impermanence
Or here one of my favorites:
The Coplas on the Death of His Father,
the Grand-Master of Santiago
Let from its dream the soul awaken,
And reason mark with open eyes
The scene unfolding,—
How lightly life away is taken,
How cometh Death in stealthy guise,—
At last beholding;
What swiftness hath the flight of pleasure
That, once attained, seems nothing more
Than respite cold;
How fain is memory to measure
Each latter day inferior
To those of old.
Beholding how each instant flies
So swift, that, as we count, ’tis gone
Let us resolve to be more wise
Than stake our future lot upon
What soon is over.
Let none be self-deluding, none,—
Imagining some longer stay
For his own treasure
Than what today he sees undone;
For everything must pass away
In equal measure.
Our lives are fated as the rivers
That gather downward to the sea
We know as Death;
And thither every flood delivers
The pride and pomp of seigniory
Thither, the rivers in their splendor;
Thither, the streams of modest worth,—
The rills beside them;
Till there all equal they surrender;
And so with those who toil on earth,
And those who guide them.
An interesting and informative post my friend.
Thank you Jerry. 🙂
Looking another ‘old’ birthday in the face and the past 5 days of constant rain has made your post seem so personal to me. Oh well, I hope the rains stop and the birthdays keep on coming. I’m still learning something new every day, especially when I read your great blog.
Yes, Don life goes fast as a dream, the best we can do its to hang on until our time comes, and be cheerful about it on the meantime.
Thank you for your comment Don. 🙂
I love this story. It has been quite some time since I have heard it. Thank you for posting so that it could be Revisited. Seems more personal and pertinent now than ever. Keep going and thank you with the great posts!
Thank you Brian. 🙂
Reblogged this on Ben Naga and commented:
Of course this is only a story. In reality …
Thank you for your comment, and visiting us. 🙂
Thank you Ben, we appreciate it. 🙂
Interesting and Beautiful!
Thank you Leyla, for letting us know. 🙂
Illusion or not, we just have to live it.
Yes, here we are, so we take care, when life is over, its not our problem anymore.
Thank you for your comment, Inese. 🙂
Also “Row row row your boat gently down the stream…”
Thank you for the fable and the usual reminders. 🙂
I had a teacher that wrote this poem:
“Life its a riverbank, Man has no port, it flows as the water, it slide by, and we pass.”
or as the Tibetans chant:
GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SVAHA. … PARASAMGATE means going, going, completely gone to the further shore…
Thank you for your comment, we appreciate it. 🙂
Our life is so short and in this short time we should give our best, which is very difficult! Thank you very much, Mr. Brogido, for this touching story. All the best. Martina
Yes, in Spanish we say as short as a briza on a hot day.
So kurz wie eine Brise an einem heißen Tag.
Thank you by commenting, Martina, blessings. 🙂
Wir überschätzen unsere Wichtigkeit leider massiv!!
Unfortunately, we overestimate our importance greatly!!
What a heart-wrenching photo of the villagers in high waters
Yes, it is.
Thank you Jadi for your comment. 🙂
Reblogged this on Vijayagiri views.
Thank you for your kindness. 🙂
Even when we receive valuable and precious knowledge of truth, we become distracted by life and forget all about the gems we received, until our lives become so incredibly upset that we become still and remember….
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to read this story.
Life it’s but a dream, it goes so fast, that when we look back we are old and it just seems we were children a few days ago…
There’s many similar tales,poems, and Sacred scripture about it who call attention, to the impermanence of life, like my answer to Rosaliene above.
Thanks for your comment, we appreciate it. 🙂
Depends on what you mean. I wouldn’t look to such stories for notes of truth since they reflect cultural beliefs rather than anything accurate about reality. Science has shown us so much about the human body and mind than anything in the past did, and some chilling things as well. Like how we don’t have free will,or a mind, and less likely a soul. We see how much of our lives is ruled by our brains and that we are just deterministic creatures at the end of the day, not too different from robots.
It’s a nice comment, but truth isn’t really a gem so much a jagged edge.
Myth are stories with a moral tale, or an explanation as an analogy, not history.
Science today it’s also a construct product of our own Zeitgeist understood as the defining spirit or mood of a particular period of history as shown by the ideas and beliefs of the time.
If history has taught us anything, it is that science will also go down in history eventually…
Determinism is the philosophical view that all events are determined completely by previously existing causes. Deterministic theories throughout the history of philosophy have sprung from diverse and sometimes overlapping motives and considerations. The opposite of determinism is some kind of non determinism, or randomness.
Determinism should not be confused with self-determination of human actions for reasons, motives, and desires. In determinism accurate prediction is not possible, due to the long chain of causes it is practically impossible, to accurate predict its results.
Maybe Science will be able to achieve consciousness on a machine, who knows?
But today is more like Science Fiction, than a reality.
Thank you for your interest. 🙂
You are mistaken.
Science is not part of any Zeitgeist, rather it’s the testing and retesting of observable phenomenon. It’s produced more consistent results in our understanding of reality rather than myths or stories. It’s not part of any culture either, in fact it is often at odds with cultures across history from Feudal Era Europe or Modern China with it’s “ancient remedies”. It’s not a perfect instrument but it is the best tool humanity has and it’s only grow stronger over the years, especially now that its (more or less) freer than before.
Determinism is less a philosophical view and more reality. Even Buddhism knew that determinism was the law of reality. Everything is cause and effect, even us. Also robots cannot be conscious because consciousness is tied to biology (as has been proven). the most a robot can do is APPEAR conscious. We also aren’t self determined since we don’t have free will in any capacity, it just appears as such to us.
It is possible to accurately predict something with determinism, but humans likely won’t reach such a state.
Maybe what you mean is what he discovered already was there.
But please tell me where science comes from?
If not, from the mind of man, likewise religion, as the Buddhism that you mention.
And therefore a construction of the human mind, science Middle English (denoting knowledge): from Old French, from Latin scientia, from scire ‘know’. it depends on homo sapiens (wise man) to KNOW how things work, develop, and express it, no man, no science, period.
Therefore, an all too human construction.
I imagine you may know that man in terms of Earth time has only been a minute and seventeen seconds if the Earth’s age will be measured as a day, that’s nothing, and the future of man is in no way assured.
Some even think that we are not even the first humanity.
I don’t know, it may be true, or not.
And as the Buddhists mention, the World is impermanent, constantly changing and perishable.And it cannot be predicted, because for that you need a human to do the prediction, or a construct from him like a computer, therefore even if an illusion, you can still go and buy your lottery ticket, hoping to win it, even if the odds are unlikely, and in that we possess freedom, even if as humans we do many foolish things, as buying lottery tickets, and believe things will last…They will not, not man, or his science, or this Universe for that matter.
And that’s the point of Narada’s story, even though it does not come from Buddhism, it belongs to Hinduism, but also the Buddhist, the atheist, the agnostic, the learnt, and the unlearned, and all mankind can understand it. Without being a true story.
And that’s the power of Myth, paraphrasing Joseph Campbell.
And as for determinism if science upholds it, many Religions uphold it too, like the Hindu, and Abrahamic Religions.
Quran (6:59) “He has the keys to the realm that lies beyond the reach of human perception; none knows them but He. And He knows what is on the land and in the sea; there is not a leaf which falls that He does not know about and there is not a grain in the darkness of the earth or anything green or dry which has not been recorded in a Clear Book.”
And they didn’t need science to figure that out!
And no, I am not an enemy of science, although many of our scientist are so proud, and boastful, full of hubris, to recognize, each age has its own Zeitgeist.
Ages, come, and go, through time, as the tides, and another age will come and replace this one, and so forth. 🙂
“And no, I am not an enemy of science, although many of our scientist are so proud, and boastful, full of hubris, to recognize, each age has its own Zeitgeist.
Ages, come, and go, through time, as the tides, and another age will come and replace this one, and so forth. 🙂”
Many scientists are actually none of those things, only a few vocal ones. Science is not the Zeitgiest, it’s a method. Observation and testing, similar to Buddhism where Buddha asked followers to test his teachings rather than take it as his word. It doesn’t matter what the root word of science is, the reality is that no matter what culture you are in or whether humans exist or not, there are ways in which aspects of reality interact (molecules, elements, etc) that don’t change no matter what culture or language they are in. In a sense science, like math, transcends culture.
All you have is religious books for quotes which don’t mean anything at all. They cannot be tested for truth, they are merely accepted as truth. Science you can test yourself. As for determinism it doesn’t really exist in the Quran or the Bible, not without serious contradictions. Both of them want free will but free will is incompatible with determinism.
Science will always last, even without humanity because it’s a method and life does it in some form or another. Animals learn to avoid bright colors because it means poison, or how otters crack sea urchins. Even without a word attached to it the process will still exist without man to give it a title, because really that’s all we did. So in a sense, science has always existed. Even if we did make it up why does that matter?
However long we have been on this planet is irrelevant to the mass about of knowledge that we have accumulated though the scientific method to the point where we know about the big bang (but we can’t know what started it). We know about the quantum world, biology, chemistry, physics to the point we can blast rockets into space and fly without wings (of which bats are the only mammals that can). As far as I can see the story has no point, it just makes an assumption without any evidence as is more representative of the beliefs of a religion rather than anything about reality.
Science is our best option and tool for knowing reality and the world. Religion had it’s turn and wasn’t up to the task, and in fact set humanity further back than forward. We are still reeling from it’s influence. I’d honestly place more stock in current research than “ancient wisdom”. Your last comment suggests an ignorance of history and science itself, since religion has traditionally kept science locked down when it conflicts with it’s teachings (it’s only fairly recently that religion has lost enough power to allow science more freedom).
Addendum: Also there haven’t really been new ages when it comes to humans, it’s more like the same thing over and over again. Right now seems to be a new age, if we can shed religion.
I got bad news for you, the problems is not that we have too many religions, but too few, each man should have his own unique faith within their heart.
Religion will never die simply by the fact we are mortal, dependent, and poor, our lives are fleeting, and fragile, we are here for a moment, then gone, we will never have all the answers, due to our limited and needy existence, so good luck! 🙂
Excuse me, but I could say the same thing about you, and your historical shortsightedness, as for Religions been summed up as negative, we can say the same about science, some of its accomplishments are terribly negative, like putting weapons of mass destruction at the service of politicians of dubious wisdom, and not to talk about the destruction of the Earth by fossil fuels, and all kind of maladies derived by the bad use of technology in order to obtain quick profit, the news are full of them.
No I am not a Religious man, and its true a lot of ignorant people use faith, and give it a bad name, but I see Wisdom, where I see it, just like in Science, but I am old, and do not believe in the fairy tale that science will turn Earth into a Paradise, at least not today specially on this year of crisis, after crisis, we are far from it.
And that is why every age change the winds, and needs of people, so far technology has given us some good, and also bad things with a high price tag attached, once people like children start being fed up with their toys, they grow up and abandon them up.
And that is what we need to do, grow up in consciousnesses, knowledge and wisdom.
Science is great, but what we need is wisdom, and virtue as individuals to be at peace.
Science is just a tool of men, not our best option, and what we need is wisdom, and virtue on the hand of the person who handles the tool, and that is sorely lacking today.
In one of my posts I wrote:
“And here is my point we can’t dismiss the subjectivity from our own nature, and that ancient Greek aphorism”know thyself” Which exist for a good reason, it’s at the root of our own Western philosophy, the Greeks named it Arete.
Areté is explicitly linked with human knowledge, where the expressions “virtue is knowledge” and “Areté is knowledge” are used interchangeably. The highest human potential is knowledge and all other human abilities are derived from this central capacity. If Areté is knowledge and study, the highest human knowledge is knowledge about knowledge itself; in this light, the theoretical study of human knowledge, which Aristotle called “contemplation,” is the highest human ability and happiness.
And no amount of technological gadgets, or scientific discoveries, will ever replace the fact that the supreme achievement of Mam will not be immortality (a dubious proposition, since the law of entropy, and the sure death of the Universe) or many other future scientific breakthroughs, and discoveries, on the outward material sphere, will not surpass the achievement of wisdom, and the acquisition of virtue within, the subjective self.”
“Science is just a tool of men, not our best option, and what we need is wisdom, and virtue on the hand of the person who handles the tool, and that is sorely lacking today.
In one of my posts I wrote:
“And here is my point we can’t dismiss the subjectivity from our own nature, and that ancient Greek aphorism”know thyself” Which exist for a good reason, it’s at the root of our own Western philosophy, the Greeks named it Arete.”
It is our best option. The problem isn’t science but man. Science has shown us our own weakness, ESPECIALLY when it comes to subjectivity. It quite bluntly shows us how faulty our senses and reasoning (in fact everything) is, which then calls into question any supposed “wisdom”.
It’s odd that you say “know thyself” because science has pretty much answered that question, but people don’t like the answer. We are our brains. Everything we take to be “mind” or soul or “self” is just brain activity. Even our very personality. The ancients, quite literally, could NEVER have known such a thing no matter how much they contemplated.
“If Areté is knowledge and study, the highest human knowledge is knowledge about knowledge itself; in this light, the theoretical study of human knowledge, which Aristotle called “contemplation,” is the highest human ability and happiness.”
This has been shown to be false, as such behavior has been psychologically shown to be detrimental to mental health and overall happiness. Contemplation also tends to lead one in circles…or depression.
“will not surpass the achievement of wisdom, and the acquisition of virtue within, the subjective self.””
Wisdom hasn’t really achieved anything, it’s VERY culturally dependent (unlike science), same with virtue being arbitrary (culturally dependent), and the subjective self does not exist (as neuroscience and numerous philosophers have shown).
So essentially your path is the one that led man to ruin. You can’t really blame science since it is merely a tool, the fault lies in man. Religion has arguable done more harm than science has done though, especially Islam, Christianity, and Buddhism to some extent (surprisingly). In fact it’s quite likely that without religion we wouldn’t be nearly as destructive as we are today, as God has been used to justify and dehumanize millions and millions over the centuries. No war was fought over scientific theories. It might give destructive tools but it’s not the main reason behind their usage. As for the environment that is human greed, again (not the fault of science). Humans were already environmentally destructive with Hunter-Gatherers wiping out species, though because we were fewer in number the damage was manageable.
All you have mentioned is not the fault of science but humanity. Science is merely a tool, a process. It does not justify genocide or environmental devastation, it can only show what IS. Religion did the damage there.
Exactly I agree with you on your assessment, however you fail to draw the right conclusion, so far we agree that Science its just a tool, a construct of men, that we use as we see fit, and not the way it should be, so the power it’s in man, and man alone right?
Science, by itself it’s helpless, man, has to change, so he can use Science properly, well good luck with that!
Maybe you should join David Pearce and his Hedonistic Imperative, on his utopia project also wrote about him:
That “article” you linked is riddled with inaccuracies, if not flat out wrong in some areas. I’m not going to bother debunking each one. The chief kink the the utilitarian argument is that if your goal is to eliminate suffering then killing all life is the answer. There isn’t a “need” to experience good things and it could be argued that such efforts to maintain that would be wasteful, while in death is is no need for such things. You die and that is it.
But let me say that transhumanism is a pipe dream. It will never happen and given the course of environmental change we will likely perish before it does happen. It’s almost akin to the Christian idea of Heaven, i.e. a distant paradise.
You are also wrong about humanity in that they won’t change, history shows us that humans repeat the same thing time and again and recent years show a backslide in that direction. Technology cannot save man from himself in my view, which is a shame because we could have done so much.
You are also wrong in that there is a “should be”. There is no such thing as “should be”, there are actions and then there are consequences. There is no measure or order to judge things with other than what a person thinks is “right”. It seems you fail to draw the accurate conclusions based on teh actual evidence and not what you want to be true.
Ian what’s your point now you are just regurgitating, what we already agree, first you come as a paladin of Science, we agree that Science its as good as the money merchants at the temple, they are there for profit, not for piety.
Now you are saying we are all doom, what happen to your faith in Science?
In my opinion Religion had a better chance to reform man, through the teaching of Morality, and good behavior, so far it failed!
Because religion its as good as the individual who uphold it, just like a scientist is as good as his deeds!
You accuse me of ‘should be’ but you are also disappointed with the current state of affairs you even sound hopeless!
And you didn’t read the post I send you, and figure out those are not my views, but David Pearce’s views. I just wrote about it.
And the only true fact we have elucidated here is that neither science, or religion, will change man, if he doesn’t wan to, not that your personal views are better than mine, period, you at first showed a faith in Science, now you also figured out it will not be enough.
You told me:
“Observation and testing, similar to Buddhism where Buddha asked followers to test his teachings rather than take it as his word.”
My question to you have you tested them? 🙂
“In my opinion Religion had a better chance to reform man, through the teaching of Morality, and good behavior, so far it failed!
Because religion its as good as the individual who uphold it, just like a scientist is as good as his deeds!
You accuse me of ‘should be’ but you are also disappointed with the current state of affairs you even sound hopeless!”
Because arguing how something should be just boils down to opinion in the end. There is no “should be” in life, there is merely how things are. That is the end result of Hinduism and Buddhism.
Religion isn’t as good as the individual who upholds it, it justified horrible acts as “moral” and for the “greater good” so it failed right off the bat. A scientist isn’t “as good as his deeds” because science does not make moral decisions.
I did read the post you sent but it was full of so many things that were wrong that it was hard to finish it. It got Nietzsche wrong and fails to address the pitfalls of utilitarianism, as well as the role of suffering in our lives. That’s just to start.
It’s not a faith in science, it’s that I trust in science to show the truth of the world as it is, unfortunately that tends to come with heartbreak. If you want hope and good feelings them go to religion, you will find none in science. Science shattered our illusion of us at the center of the universe and showed us how small everything we value truly is. I’m not disappointed because I didn’t expect better from humanity. This is essentially par for the course for us and it’s looking like our end is in sight. Science tries to help, but science is hard and people don’t like things that are hard, they want the easy answer and clear enemy.
In short science offers it’s hand and humans either bat it away or ignore it. I honestly wonder how the climate scientists can even keep going when everyone seems to ignore their warnings, and by the time they actually feel the effects it will be too late. When it comes to vaccines they ignore the science and now we have pockets of measles breaking out, an illness that was gone due to vaccines. The reason people “hate” science is because it runs counter to our intuitions about the world and shows us how wrong those intuitions are. It has always had an uphill battle when it comes to public acceptance. People praise it when it gives them something good but when it shows them inconvenient truths they question it and shun it. I truly feel for anyone in the sciences because you are labeled as “out of touch” when really you know what is going on but no one will listen.
You did not answer what I asked you, you just spit a diatribe about the objectivity of Science, which I do not have any contention with, neither expect to teach us about morality, but since science does not worry about moral behavior Buddhism it does.
And since you used that remark I maybe wrongly assumed you were a practicing Buddhist, are you? 🙂
I did answer it. I don’t practice it but I know it’s teachings.
My short answer is I have no hope for humanity but I’ll see what happens.
Well, my advice to you if you want to take it, do not use arguments of things you have no knowledge, Buddhism, like any other religion if you do not have a practice, intellectual knowledge it’s not enough, at least if you have a scientific curiosity, you should test it by practicing it, and then you can use the phrase, and you will know what you are talking about. 🙂
Actually reading it is enough to grasp some of it, but it seems you need to take your own advice. You are using arguments of things you have no knowledge of instead using bloated storytelling to make a point, or at least attempt to.
I say this having spoken to those who actually know this stuff and I can confidently say you know very little and it shows.
Well believe what you want, but I have practiced several pathways, and not for a short time but a lifetime, and even studied a scientific career for five years, but dedicated myself to Spiritual pursuits, now for over five decades, besides earning my bread to make a living, on diverse occupations, and no, you do not know anything about it, without a practice, less even tell, who knows or who doesn’t ,reading its just the beginning.
And it shows too.
And if you come here just for trolling kicks, I will suggest to move somewhere else, I got no time for fooling around with insincere people, who want to bloat their ego with their great knowledge of things they do not even practice, period.
Sorry but I got no time for you nonsense, you may have the time to write, I have not, I got better things to do, when things get personal the conversation is over, if you do not care about my opinions, what the hell you are doing here?
If you have nothing to learn here, do better things with your time, than trolling, if you believe its all on the mind, well try to control your mind, it will not be as easy as you think, order it to stay away from my blog!
I told you controlling the mind it’s not so easy, you come back to my blog because you got what in Zen Buddhism it’s called ‘Monkey mind.’ 🙂
And you want to enlighten me?
Please go get a Practice, here for your education:
Your references to the Vedic literature are interesting and intriguing. I have written some things similar in Tangier Gardens, but not as you have. I am looking for someone with Vedic understanding to review my book before the launch in March2022. I have epub advance review copies available if you have both time and interest. I sniggered thinking that my last sentence asked for a whole hell of a lot. Contact me if you are open to the idea of a review.
Thank you for your offer, unfortunately my time its taken by many other duties and activities, not to add the many books I read, that seat on my working desk, I just read your post about Tangier Gardens, a city that Historically its a cultural crossroad of people in search of whatever they dream to find there.
Good luck with your book!
Reblogged this on LAWET and commented: